Milt,
On a few occasions and in a few ways, we have assessed what our neighbors want. At our first "listening sessions," our neighbors approached a podium, one after another, and pleaded to keep sanitation in house. It looked to me like 100% of them wanted that. At the ends of those sessions, we took a secret poll of those who wanted to be polled, and we found that 50% of respondents wanted sanitation in-house, and 50% wanted to outsource it. We don't know if minds were changed by the content of the sessions, or if different people voted than the people who spoke.
Some of our neighbors wrote to all of the Commissioners. Obviously, I don't know about the ones who didn't write to all of us. Of the ones who wrote to all Commissioners, I would say that about 75-80% very much did not want to outsource.
At the last Commission meeting, many of our neighbors spoke openly. I kept a tab, and about 25 speakers didn't want to outsource, while about 5 did want to outsource. So about 84% of speakers did not want to outsource.
It seems clear to me that our neighbors have heard what the issues are. They get it. They understand that keeping sanitation in house will cost more. They're willing to pay it. You might complain that they're generous with your money, but they say they're also generous with their own money. The only thing they have not offered to do is compensate the Village for the Franchise Fee that outsourcing would have brought us. But they haven't refused, either.
If what seems like a majority of our neighbors want something, and are willing to pay for it, on what basis do you or we deprive them of it? Because you or we didn't want what they wanted, or we thought they were wrong, but we got outvoted? What we don't know is what the real majority of our neighbors want. We have never heard from the real majority. As I have said before, I could guess what they might be likely, based on their behavior, to want, but I'm only guessing. We have to assume that a "majority" has spoken. That's how elections work. The majority of voters decide who wins. Those who don't vote have nothing to say about it. (And for purpose of discussion, if we polled everyone in the Village, and 84% of all residents wanted to keep the sanitation program in-house, and were willing to pay for it, would you still want to outsource it? Would you still propose to take it away from the very sizable majority of your neighbors who say they want it and say they're willing to pay for it?)
Fred
Anti-Outsourcers,
As best I can tell, we all agree about one thing. Well, most of us agree. We agree that we are trying to save the Village, not only to keep it from failing as an independent municipality, but to build it into a functioning place that meets its proper responsibilities and is a credit and a pleasure to its inhabitants. It's true that there are some of us who either don't care if the Village fails, or who actively hope it does. Some seem to be sowing seeds of sabotage. Their fantasy is that we would fall, but only gently, into the waiting and loving arms of Miami Shores. We would become the Shores' "Historic Biscayne Park" district. So the fantasy goes. But that appears only to be a minority of us, and we can set them aside for a while.
There's another seeming minority I would propose we set aside. I met some of them when I was campaigning last fall, and the inflammatory issue was whether we should pursue annexation. When I confessed to those who asked that I not only wouldn't rule out annexation, but I actually thought it was a good idea, some people ended the conversation immediately. They didn't exactly slam the door in my face, but it was close. A couple of anti-annexers did have a conversation with me, and they let me know that as far as they were concerned, annexation was out of the question. Whether it was some concept of its changing the Village, or something simply not articulated, they just wouldn't hear of it. If I said the future of the Village was at stake, their only suggestion was that we think of some other solution. They themselves didn't have one, except to economize better.
You like our traditional in-house sanitation service, and you want to keep it. If someone tells you we have also traditionally budgeted poorly for this service, and that the cost will go up, considerably, you agree to pay more. Although you also say what the anti-annexation people said: maybe if we economized better, we wouldn't have to charge more, or at least not much more, than we would with outsourcing. But you've made clear that even if did have to charge a good deal more, you would agree to pay it.
If the sanitation program was entirely self-contained, it might be hard to disagree with you. You did say you were willing to pay whatever it costs. But there are two important leaks in the plumbing of this system. One is the administrative component of the sanitation fee. This is the part of the sanitation budget that is essentially transferred to the general fund, to cover the estimated proportion of "staff" time that is used to manage the sanitation component of the PW department. This transfer has gotten some notoriety, in part because your effort to suggest economizing has focused on this fee, about which a number of you complain. You suggest the administrative fee is padded, and you would like it to be lowered. But what if you're wrong? Or what if this transfer is part of what allows the Village to work fiscally? We still have to pay our administrative employees. If we don't use the administrative part of the sanitation budget to do it, and we can't raise our ad valorem tax rate much more, don't you jeopardize the whole Village budget?
The other leak is the new influx of unrestricted cash that comes into Village coffers if we outsource. You have offered to pay what the sanitation program costs, but I don't think you have offered to compensate the Village for the "loss" of this new revenue. We can't try to preserve this benefit by adding it to the in-house sanitation budget, because everything in that fund has to stay within sanitation. That part of the advantage of outsourcing would have gone to the general fund, to help us pay for things other than sanitation. What do you propose to do about that "loss?"
One last question: you have often argued that with an in-house program, the Village has more "control." In fact, the Village has considerably less control when the program is in-house. When we own and run the program, we are vulnerable. If employees don't come to work, or equipment breaks down, we're stuck. We can't get the work done, or at least not on time, and we incur expenses, either for overtime or for repairs. If we don't outsource, how do you propose we confront these problems, and the lack of control they present to us?
Fred
I have had a phone call from one of our neighbors, Scott Steger. Scott agrees that the opinions of our neighbors should be taken into account, but he feels there is an unfair representation by those who can take the time to come to meetings. He says that he personally thinks sanitation should be outsourced, and "everyone [he] know[s]," or "50" of his friends feel the same way. His impression is that although he thinks what is best for the Village is what should be done regardless of what people say they want, in fact a real majority think we should outsource sanitation.
ReplyDeleteScott did not want to write this comment himself, but he didn't mind if I said it for him, and if I used his name. I told him that for the sake of giving weight to the opinions of BP residents, it would help his position if he and his neighbors would write to the Commissioners and the Village Manager to express this "majority" opinion. Scott agreed, but he countered that the Village should already have distributed flyers amounting to ballots and asked that residents deliver their votes to Village Hall. Scott is not wrong. This is what we should have done. As Scott correctly pointed out, we just delivered two flyers to each BP home. How much more would have been involved to have added one more flyer?
Fred, there is one more point to make about our "silent" neighbors. That they have not been paying much attention to this issue doesn't mean they are willing to pay a higher fee so we can keep it in house. I bet you WILL hear from many of them if the Village has to raise the fee significantly to keep the service as is. People will be mad, and with reason. A few outspoken neighbors cannot speak for the rest saying "raise our taxes". It just doesn't work that way.
ReplyDeleteIn my view you cannot please all of the people all of the time, but you have to do what is best for the community. And we are on dire need to streamline operations in Biscayne Park, the way we are doing business is not sustainable and we are just one big storm away from being bankrupt. So, if I can claim to say something for the silent majority, do the right thing, follow our manager's recommendation and modernize our operations.
Jorge.
Jorge,
DeleteWhether Scott is right that we should have canvassed the neighborhood better, or he succeeds in getting his friends to communicate with us now, the best thing is that our neighbors, whatever they think, not be silent. Majority or minority. A majority of a small segment of us doesn't really tell us what we would like to know.
Your other point, and what amounts to the continuing philosophical dilemma for me, is whether we, or our elected Commissioners, should care what people want. Should the Commission advocate for what its members think is best for the neighborhood, regardless of neighborhood sentiment? And suppose an important community decision is made by a narrow majority of the Commission. Is that just as valid, despite what BP residents want, as a unanimous Commission sentiment?
I think whatever our neighbors decide, as long as they take everyone's issues, including the overarching Village issues, into account, has adequate validity to it. That's just me.
Fred
The only dilemma I see is this, should you upset some of your neighbors and friends that are very involved in the community and are philosophically against outsourcing or not?
DeleteThe rest of the people in Biscayne Park are not willing to pay more in taxes, I can assure you that. So that is the tough decision I see, the next meeting will be tense and I only see one deciding vote there so far, it will be a 3-2. Which way it will go, I have no idea, but that will be the vote and we will have to face our future with that decision.
I can pay more in taxes, I don't mind that. But I think it will be a wasted opportunity and something we will regret in the future if we don't modernize this city.
Jorge,
DeleteYes, that is the question.
If you can "assure" that most BP residents do not want higher fees for services that can cost considerably less, we all need to hear from these people. If there is any possibility that the Village and its government should respond to what the residents want, then we need a clear statement of what they want. I personally think we should take advantage of the opportunity to outsource sanitation. If it was clear to me that a majority of my neighbors felt the same way, I would be relieved of any philosophical dilemmas.
Yes, we should not waste good opportunities. Although, as I said before, we can always retreat from either choice we make. It's easier to reverse outsourcing than to reverse not outsourcing, but either one can be done.
Fred
Trash collection is a service that every person in Biscayne Park will use, and therefore the entire city of BP needs to be represented. We have younger families, elderly, and households that need to budget their funds. The few people who want the luxury of personal antiquated trash service reminiscent of 1955, need to pay the difference. Not everybody has the time to go to city government meetings, and are counting on our city government to make wise decisions.... which is not about showing up at a commission meeting, it's about trusting our elected officials to run this city efficiently, and as a business. You can't place an assessment on an entire community to serve the privileged few who have no issue throwing $500 to a wasteful trash service that needs to be completely re-organized, and once we start demanding a more efficient service, they're going to quit. The reason we get away with paying them slave wages is because they have no fear of replacement, since we can't find workers at $8/hr. If we keep our trash service, they are going to show up on Monday through Friday, or they will need to be fired. Things will change, and everyone who wants to sit with their head stuck in sand are going to get an unexpected kick in the butt!
ReplyDeleteBrad,
DeleteIt's very hard to argue with you. Nothing you say is not correct. The only thing I would point out to you is that a number of the people who plead not to lose in-house sanitation, and who eagerly offer to pay more to keep this program, are not, in fact, privileged. It seems almost peculiar, and a bit impressive, to me that some people who are otherwise very quick to complain about taxes and other municipal expenses, and their limited resources, are among those who say they would be happy to pay more. There is some question as to whether they mean it, and will continue unwaveringly to mean it, and whether they will suddenly become very vigilant about every dollar the Village spends on sanitation, and how we could have spent less. I wouldn't want that constant nagging drone to be the other side of accepting their offer to pay more. They have the same limitation I do: neither they nor I have decision-making prerogative when it comes to running Village services. That's the reason we have a professional manager.
The other question, to which you indirectly allude, is whether we can in fact change the union contract in such a way as to effectively increase productivity among our employees, if we keep the program in house. My very clear suspicion is that you are precisely correct about what the consequence of our protecting ourselves would be.
All for our continued discussion, although we do have a decision to make very soon.
Fred
Brad,
DeleteNow this is an interesting concept: "The few people who want the luxury of personal antiquated trash service reminiscent of 1955, need to pay the difference." I'm not sure if it is realistic, but is at least an alternative idea.
Why I don't think it is realistic is two-fold. #1) I'm not sure we could even bill the higher rate for just those who want to maintain their position. #2) I feel it would be cost prohibitive... even for those who now claim this is what they want.
There are limits when reality is brought into focus.
They want/need EVERYONE to pay the higher rate (min. 65.5% more than the actual service cost proposal) just to maintain their wish.
#3A) The Village could not increase its capacity part way, to accommodate selected houses in the neighborhood, and #3B) an outside contractor neither would nor could service selected houses in the neighborhood.
DeleteFred,
ReplyDeleteIf a group of people ganged around us aggressively stating that the sky is, um green, does that make it so? If we look up and see otherwise for ourselves...then is their belief any less relevant to them?
You and our other Commissioners were elected to lead us. To be the stewards of our community. This does not include deluding your own eyes.
Where are the alternative plans from those adamant about not changing the way things have been for decades? How do we make up for the lost revenue and opportunity? What merit is there in their insistency if that path is the incorrect one based on all the facts? Should we all be subjected to their desire just because they say so? As you mention, they scoff at the thought of annexing and other possible income producing measures yet do not offer any other viable alternative solutions."
Does the sky truly look green to you?
If as you say we agree that we are trying to save the Village, to keep it from failing as an independent municipality, then we need to be proactive on those beliefs. Actions speak louder than words. "Should the Commission advocate for what its members think is best for the neighborhood, regardless of neighborhood sentiment?" Yes, that's what leaders are tasked to do.
If anyone is more concerned with public sentiment than in acting in the most prudent and fiscally responsible manner (once examining our situation and knowing the probability of outcome), then perhaps we have misplaced our trust in those individuals.
Milt
Milt,
ReplyDeleteWrong analogy. Of course the sky is not green. But what's it to anyone if someone says it is?
When I was young, my father offered me a gesture. He offered to pay half, and I would pay the other half, for my first car. I chose a used FIAT, which cost only $1500. (It was 1970, and the car was a '69. The owner's wife had just had a baby, and he could no longer rely on such a tiny car.) I supplied $750, and my father supplied the other $750. He didn't say anything or ask anything. But what if I had chosen my dream car? What if I had somehow been able to save up half of a Jaguar XKE? It would have cost me more, and it would have cost him more. And I would have been buying a car that was notorious for spending way too much time in mechanic's shops. Should he have told me no, if I had chosen an E-Type? Should he have explained why I was making a mistake, and he wasn't throwing his good money after my bad? He could afford half of one (better than I could), but it could have been argued it was an unnecessary expense, and I would only be buying myself a problem. Since that was not my choice, the issue did not arise. But it was presented as my choice. As long as I could supply half of whatever it was, he would unquestioningly supply the other half. Even an inflated and foolish half.
My theoretical proposal is that I, as a representative, and the rest of us, as a theoretical minority, might agree to spring for whatever the theoretical majority want, as long as they take their end of the responsibility. We might do for them what my father did, said he would do, might theoretically unflinchingly have done, for me. Now obviously, this is a very different conversation if you and I and Brian and Brad and Chuck and Scott turn out to be a majority, and not a minority. We haven't tested that yet. The views we have gotten mostly suggest we are the minority, or it might be even, depending on the test we apply. But I do think Scott is right. We should try harder to find out what we all want. Your argument, and Jorge's, and Brian's and Brad's is that it should perhaps not matter what a majority want. If a minority, or even a tiny minority, has a reason to declare itself right, then that minority might be positioned to prevail. That, Milt, is the philosophical debate I have been having with myself.
But let me confide the following in you. And let's keep this between you and me. I don't have a clear way to assess this, but I have a sneaking suspicion that the majority that counts, the one on the Commission, is more likely to decline outsourcing. There are two I feel somewhat sure will vote against it, and there's one I suspect will. One of the ones I feel sure will vote against outsourcing seems to want more time and might soon enough change his or her mind. Although he or she might be dodging the issue. The one I think might be on the fence, who I suspect will vote against outsourcing, is really a wild card and is generally not easy to predict. Cards close to vest and all.
I still think it will make a difference what we come to believe the majority of our neighbors want. I'm guessing that the two Commissioners I just mentioned would both vote to outsource if they thought a majority of us wanted it. That's only my guess. But I will tell you what I told Scott Steger. It may not matter to you, but it matters to me, and I think it matters to other Commissioners. If there is a well of BP residents out there who want outsourcing, they need to communicate that to all five Commissioners and the Manager. Please go find them and tell them.
Fred
If anyone is more concerned with public sentiment than in acting in the most prudent and fiscally responsible manner (once examining our situation and knowing the probability of outcome), then perhaps we have misplaced our trust in those individuals.
ReplyDeleteI would say there are two kinds of attention an elected official can pay to his or her constituents. One is timid pandering. The other is trying to represent what they believe to be their interests. You might say they're the same thing, as far as you're concerned.
ReplyDeleteSince you have now repeated a bottom line, would you say that an elected representative, whether he or she is pandering or simply trying to represent the articulated wishes of his or her constituency, not only has been the recipient of misplaced trust, but should do the decent thing and resign? Obviously, you're leaving another option, which is that the elected "representative" should ignore his or her constituents and simply do what he or she independently thinks is "best."
Fred
Fred, I entirely agree with Milt. You are here to protect the future of Biscayne Park, not to pacify the disgruntled.
DeleteFred,
ReplyDeleteI feel as if I'm chasing my tail on this at this point. I've tried to articulate the points based on fiscal responsibility and forward thinking. As a homeowner/taxpayer "I" have not allowed public sentiment (rational or not), emotion or any other such feeling to cloud the bottom line. But I do understand that you cannot view it in this manner.
In the end, I'm just one voice and will be subjected to the decision of others. That's the way of it. I've said what I meant to say and do not feel as if I have any more to offer regarding this subject.
Hello,
ReplyDeleteI understand the village would save a significant amount of money by outsourcing, in addition to gaining a new source of income by way of the franchise fee. This argument seems to be clear-cut.
Would it be possible for someone to articulate a rational argument for keeping sanitation in-house? This is a sincere request. Are people arguing it is a better class of service? I have not heard a solid explanation on this point and I think we would benefit if this were put forward in a clear and concise manner.
- Brian Picardi
Brian,
DeleteThere are rational and irrational arguments for keeping sanitation in house. To be honest, I think it would be best if the people, of whom there are many, who want to keep it in house articulated those arguments. Perhaps they will. They can do it with maximum sincerity.
But, since you posted this comment many hours ago, and no one has responded to you yet, I will try to summarize the more rational arguments. (I'm frankly a little disappointed that I'm the one who has to provide you with these answers to your question.) You can find most of them in comments beneath other related blog posts. And I will tell you now, there are few arguments, even the seemingly rational ones, that do not have significant flaws to them. But you didn't ask for rebuttals to the rational arguments. You said you just wanted to know what they are.
One argument is that it would be an advantage to have the familiar and accustomed people serving the Village and its residents. Some of our PW/sanitation workers have been Village employees for 15-25 years. The thinking is that these are Village employees who know the Village and its residents and are literally watchful regarding us and our characteristics. One idea is that these employees would know if something was out of place, and they would be likely "first responders," by calling the police if they saw something that looked out of place to them.
Slightly related is the experience some report of receiving certain elements of help from our sanitation workers. Stories are told of these employees helping carry something for a Village resident, or helping with a related chore.
Although this is not rational in a strict sense, there is abundant feeling from some Village residents that since PW/sanitation employees don't want to be outsourced, it would be unkind to outsource them.
Another argument is presented as rational, but it is so untrue as to be irrational. But since the argument is offered and sounds rational on the surface, I will repeat it to you. The argument is that we have more "control" of sanitation if it is managed and run directly by the Village and its management. The concern that leads to this argument is that if this program was outsourced, and if some of the workers who executed the task were previously unknown to the Village and its residents, we would somehow be exposed to people we don't know and trust. Related to this argument is the further argument that these previously unknown workers, who would be seen as having no particular affection or positive sentiment toward the Village and its residents, would actually use the opportunity presented by the sanitation rounds to case the Village, in effect, and either use the reconnaissance to return to the Village later to steal or vandalize, or they would pass along like information to confederates, who would do the same thing.
I can't off hand think of any other "rational" arguments. If someone else can, or they think I mischaracterized, I hope they will fill in or correct.
Fred