Saturday, November 17, 2018
Where Are We Going With This?
I suspect many Biscayne Parkers would either refer to the Park as "quaint," or they'd agree it's a good description of what and who we are. It's what many of us want us to be, and to continue to be. Some of us cling tightly to this thematic description.
There's a contingent who don't like two-story houses here. (They're within the Code, but some people persist in not liking them.) I hear complaints about the contemporary-style houses, even the older ones. Some don't like the creeping SoBe effect, with two-story additions on the backs of one-story houses.
A few years or so back, there was a battle, of sorts, regarding metal roofs. Not charming. Too industrial. Ruination to the Village. Imagine, some fretted, if X percent of BP houses eventually converted to metal roofs. No, no, no! And then, we changed the Code to allow them, and now, we have a few more than we did.
And it's not just the style of newer homes, but also the mass of them. P&Z won't approve a design that doesn't respect setbacks, but even at that, some of the newer projects seem imposing. There were complaints about what Max Deitermann did with the old "Larry King" property. And there's the modern, two-story, energy-efficient house in the block just west of mine. Some BPers don't like these projects, because the new construction seems too dominant for the lot and for the surrounding houses.
It's worth the reminder here that among the factors P&Z can take into account is "harmony" with the Village, and even with the section or block in question. So, when P&Z have accepted an architectural proposal, we are to assume they have looked at the Code requirements overall, the setbacks, and even the "sense" of the project being proposed. They have agreed that it will look in some sense nice, or at least that it won't look bad, or disproportionate, or provocative. That even includes things like colors.
Well, there's a very interesting project most of the way to completion. It's in 117th Street, between 6th and 7th Avenues, on the south side of the street. Mac Kennedy and I were trying to figure out how many lots this project occupies. We weren't sure if the street frontage was one lot, or two. The depth seems clearly to be two. So the building occupies either two or four lots. It's two-story, and it's a very modern style. Just west of the front of the house is the "hacienda," a double front Spanish-style house. To the east of the house in question is another Spanish-style one-story house. It's a little unbelievable to walk around this part of the block, to see how vast is this new house. As a frame of reference, and at risk of being provocative, no one on this block has any privacy any more. The backs of all the other houses, and all of the back yards, are now fully visible from this structure. Not to be crass about it, but if any of those neighbors are typically relaxed about their attire in the "privacy" of their homes, or if they like skinny-dipping, that party is about to be over, unless they're also exhibitionistic.
In "full disclosure," the builder of the house, who, as far as I know, intends to occupy it when it's done, is also a member of P&Z. I would of course like to assume he recused himself from consideration of the plan that was proposed, and that his P&Z colleagues didn't grant him anything they wouldn't have granted anyone else, but I'm just stating the fact.
One of my friends, who more or less always stays "above the fray," recently sent me a text message, to ask if I had seen this house. If I hadn't, he suggested I "take a look." I said I had in fact seen it, that in my opinion, it was "massive," and also in my opinion, it seemed "too big for the lot." He replied with "looks out of place to me." "Me, too," I agreed.
These are the particulars: the evolution of permitted paint colors; roofing materials; increasing size of houses, changes of styles of houses. But the bigger picture is whether the Village has, or should have, an architectural theme. (In further disclosure, I will say that I don't think it has or should have. I think we're very eclectic, and I'm good with us that way. My larger concerns are landscaping and general maintenance.) Some people who think it should think that theme should be old-timey, low key, low rise. Hey, that's a philosophy. But it might be a slippery slope that leads to some other BP home/property-owners who are also OK with low rent, little demanded of property-owners, and conditions and presentations that are frankly unkempt. I suppose this isn't the time for me to remind us that we just elected an entire Commission of BP residents who have no personal ambition regarding property appearance, and who are extremely unlikely to make demands on the rest of us. It's true, though.
But what do we think of our growing evolution to more modern styles, and increasing mass? Interestingly, the builder of the new project in 117th St has preserved a little stand of small trees and shrubs in front of the house. If this is indicative 1) that he intends to landscape, and 2) that his landscape theme will be more redolent, that's nice. It won't distract much from the mass and dominance of the building, but it's the most we can get from him now.
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In further, further disclosure, I like what Max Deitermann built on Griffing. I like what he did on 8th Avenue between 116th and 117th, on the west side. I don't mind the house in the block next to mine. (Although John Holland and Elena Olson might.) The SoBe additions are fine with me. I like that they're subtly and discreetly behind the one-story front structures. I do think the new project on 117th is too much. But that's just my opinion. Clearly not shared by the architect/builder/occupant and by P&Z.
ReplyDeleteI don’t mind larger homes being built, it’s the property owners right as long as they’re within code. That being said, if majority of residents don’t want larger homes, they need to voice to commission so they can tighten up our codes to prevent or contain the McMansions... but there’s that terrible word again, CODE.
ReplyDeleteWhen you drive through east palm Beach, there are MEGGAAAAA OLD MONEYYY MANSIONS, basically every estate is one of these and yet, the neighborhood feels quaint, cozy homey. Why? All of these properties are lushly landscaped & maintained. The trees foliage mask the grandeur size of these homes and still makes
The streets feel like a quaint little
Town.
If a McMansion goes up and is required by code (miami
Safe code requires certain landscape heights and coverage to be installed prior to finalizing and closing out permit. Since Biscayne Park doesn’t have a landscape ordinance /code, we defer to Miami Dade.. so technically Biscayne Park could already use and enforce this... we just don’t. There’s a house on 11ct & 120st That has Installed a concrete pad circular driveway up against the house, gravel for the entrances of the driveway. They presentated a BEAUTIFUL rendering of what the property would look like to P&Z, lushly landscaped in the center of circular driveway.
We walked past the house.. well there aren’t any plants. Not one. Instead they’ve laid a different color gravel in the center of the driveway with a few rocks.... Biscayne Park inspected and finaled ouf the permit, now we’re stuck looking at the rocks. Why wouldn’t the inspector, who’s present at P&Z meetings say something to the effect of “umm wait, this isn’t what you presentated. This isn’t what was approved. You’re in violation of Miami Dade landscape codes and until you plant according to the code and as per your rendering, we cannot final out this permit”
IMO- that is soo much more visually offensive then a large home that’s lusy landscaped.
Plants and trees do so much for the look and feel
Of a house/ structure as well as Mother Earth of
Course.
Nicole,
DeleteYour point is of course spot on, but not having seen these Palm Beach estates, I would guess that the buildings are set back generously from the street. Not so on 117th. As much as the architect/builder preserved foliage there, and assuming he installs more once the building project is done, there is still not an expanse of front garden between the street and the building. It's whatever the Code requires, which I think is a minimum of 30 feet.
The thing that is more noteworthy about this project is how deep it goes, and how it occupies so much of the block. There's a lot of structure out there. You've probably never been to Harvey Bilt's house, but it sits on a huge lot, too. The house is modest, and the back yard is expansive. That's not what we have on 117th. Go take a look, and walk around the corner onto 7th Avenue. Look how far south you can still see a second story on that house, from the street, with another house between the street and the house in question.
As Fred writes, the Village of Biscayne Park is eclectic in its architectural expression. But based on the house Fred describes in his blog post, it appears that “it” and the builder got a bit carried away. So, where does eclectic stop, and when does proper and neighborly protocol take precedence? Sounds like a dichotomy of sorts. Personally, I am not a fan of cookie-cutter houses. I like diversity, as long as it doesn’t scream “look at me," which this house seems to do. A new Grande Dame has come to town, and its creator is on the P&Z to boot. Most interesting...and entertaining.
ReplyDeleteWhat! No skinny-dipping?
Judith Marks-White
Westport, CT
Here's another problem we have which contributes to the massiveness of this and other structures. Our code does not allow for anything greater than 2 stories but it does not give a maximum height that the structure must cap out at. So you can pretty much go crazy - with no restrictions.
ReplyDeleteJaney,
DeleteI can't find my copy of the Code book right now, but it seems to me there is a height limitation. I don't remember what it is. It's been a while since I was very familiar with the Codes, so I might be wrong about this, but that's my hazy memory of it.
But even so, I'm very familiar with P&Z deciding that a proposal just wasn't right, even if the individual aspects of it are consistent with the Code. And that's their job. I didn't always agree with them, when I was on P&Z, about their tastes in what was OK and what wasn't, but I appreciate that they get to consider the intangibles, too. The usual relevant reasons for rejecting a plan were that the proposal just wouldn't, in the opinions of the P&Z members look good, or that it was somehow sufficiently disharmonious with the neighborhood or the block.
I have never spoken to anyone from P&Z about the house in question, and I don't know what was their deliberation, in terms of whether there was any concern that this project felt too massive for the block or the Village. Maybe they discussed that, and maybe they didn't react that way and therefore didn't discuss it. I'm just bringing it up now, because it's something for us to talk about. It won't affect this project, but it might affect our feelings, or the feelings of P&Z members, about some future project that will be presented to them. In theory, with a normal Commission, this conversation might affect any attention they might pay to the Codes. Not this Commission, but a normal one.
30 foot ceilings anyone?!!
ReplyDelete117st house, I’ve seen it, I’ve walked around it, I’ve been on the property looking at their pool (we were going to use the same pool contractor as the homeowner did & recommended — that is until the contractor took our initial money deposit to have a set of plans made and ran off, never to be seen again, bye bye $1,200). The house is large & screams LOOK AT ME due to the lack of landscaping, currently (they very well may plant a ton of plants in front of the garage and that will greatly mask the hugeness of it)
Fred, some of the estates are far back and some are not so far back at all. I’ll email you some pictures.
East palm beach is one of my favorite visual
neighborhoods.
Nicole,
DeleteI'm sorry you got scammed. I wonder if you should tell this story to the owner of the 117th St project (I think his name is Karim something-or-other) to see if he has any influence with this company, since he used them and recommended them.
I do hope the token stand they kept out front means they intend to fill in generously. And I hope you're right about masking the hugeness of a huge house. But that won't do any good to the neighbors to the sides and out back, who no longer have an open feeling to their back yards, or any privacy. You've been to that house. You've seen it. You know it's a beast.
Fred you are so right. This conversation should start with the commission. As has been said about many issues - it is their responsibility to set the tone and the expectations and goals. Problem is they have none. Support for code and the overall aesthetics of our community has never had unanimous support of any commission since I've lived here but with this commission we've hit rock bottom. We now have a unanimous lack of support and interest. Betsy certainly isn't going to get her hands dirty by tackling anything to do with code. Dan......hopeless and clueless. The other 3 we've seen in action for 2 years and we know they aren't going to change.
ReplyDeleteKarim did recuse himself for this project and he was not given preferential treatment. The Land Development codes, oops I said that word also, should be looked at again and tightened up to assist the P&Z board to make informed decisions. This project was talked about twice as the first set of plans supplied was just a discussion item. The 2nd set of plans brought forward lacked detail and heights of the proposed home. The plans did not show the owner/builder raising the grade of the property as well. I think grade was raised about 3-4 feet and then the slab of the home was poured. Sure, his flood insurance will be lower, but this raising of grade should have been depicted on the plans that were provided.
ReplyDeleteMy opinion is that on the project title sheet, it should have all relevant information about the project (ex. height of first floor above crown of road, over height of proposed building above crown of road, and lot coverage rates). There was talk about a year and a half ago about a construction ordinance. That being said, there was no movement on this and in my opinion there should have been.
Also, the requirement of a landscaping / irrigation plan should be required and installed prior to the finaling of the building permit.
DeleteExcellent and interesting points. So, wasn't there an inspection after the slab was poured? If the slab was too high, why was it passed?
DeleteBut be that as it may, did P&Z discuss that this structure is very unusual in BP? It's massive, imposing, and visually encroaches on neighboring properties unlike anything else in the Park. Did those facts get some attention from the Board? Clearly, they approved it anyway, except it's too high, because the slab was poured too high. The Board was different years ago when I was on it, but Gage and Andrew were there then. I would have guessed they, at least, would not have been accepting of a proposal like this. Maybe I'm wrong. Or maybe their tastes have changed. Or maybe they didn't like it, but they got outvoted.
There is nothing in Florida building code or our codes that has a height limitation on the height of the first floor slab. Actually FEMA encourages builders to build higher up so there less of a chance of flooding, hence the reason for lower premiums. Gage has said publicly that he does not mind the modern looking homes. I do not recall if Andrew was present or not.
ReplyDeleteI don't mind modern-looking houses, either, but permitted architecture in BP should not be dictated by one person. We already have that problem with Dan Keys and the state of our medians.
DeleteMy point was that I'm not the only who thinks the house we're discussing is overwhelming for the setting. Regardless of the height of the slab (which in any case shouldn't be greater than the plan that was approved called for), did P&Z talk about the mass of this house, and its incursion into all the other properties on that block? Maybe they did, and they didn't agree that it was imposing. Or maybe they thought it was, but they felt it was approvable anyway. I'm just curious whether or not the matter was recognized as a feature of this project, and whether or not it was discussed.
After reading this post yesterday i drove by the property earlier this afternoon, and well.....ya'll weren't kidding. its pretty big.
ReplyDeleteI think that it was brought up, but due to the size lot it fit with in our code.
ReplyDeleteThis is exactly why our village should require a mailed notification to residents within a one block radius of a two story addition or new construction, so they may attend or write in comments to the p&z board.
Plans that are submitted to the building department are only submitted via paper and then scanned to digital format by our building clerk. This is a disservice to the board as the majority on the board only have about 5 minutes to review the paper plans at the meeting. One solution would be to require the permit submission to be in paper and digital via CD. This would allow the entire board to review the plans prior to the meetings.
Miami-Dade building department has been requiring this for years now, and the village is just back in the times.
I have to make a correction to my previous statement. Our building clerk has updated our permit application recently to include that architectural plans must be submitted in electronic and paper format. This is great!!!
ReplyDeleteNow I would like to give a big thanks for the proactive ways of Jean Paul! He is actively working on new forms to help the board and village out! He is still here after taking a pay cut. These are the types of employees that the village should be actively seeking to employ and retaining by paying what they deserve. (He deserves a raise not a pay cut)
Once again, BIG Shoutout to the good work Jean Paul has brought to our village. He is truely appreciated!
Why was Jean Paul’s pay cut? Or do you mean the salary was reduced before he got the job? Two very different things.
ReplyDeleteThe budget decreased for his salary line item this past budgeting season.
ReplyDelete